Curse

HawkofStorms · Nov 09, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

People complaining about Weaken Armor's usefulness clearly never used it before this buff.

Yeah... WA was always outclassed by Barbs. Still is. Now it is -20 vs physical AND elemental damage, but the down side is it is now a condition (way easier to remove) and it doesn't affect classes with 60 armor already. Eh... a sideways move really.

Ivan Darklord · Nov 09, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Maybe the Splinter Weapon Nerf was meant for solo Rts (Rt/W) in UW, only 1 group of 3 at a time now

Not sure though...maybe it's still effective, and whats with Ancestral Rage? I don't get why they made it an enchant and then removed it as an enchant. why? O.o

Ecklipze · Nov 09, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Rangers had godmode and still have godmode, which brings me to my next point.

Why do rangers have godmode? Selfheal, mitigation stance, rediculous armor, and interupts. Which of these can we mimick? How many bars contain damage mitigation of some sort? None. We've been relying on Aegis and Defensive Anthem as our legs, screw crutches. Granted, Aegis has been working it's magic for a long while now, it's just become much more of a "necessity" recently. How many bars contain selfheals? Healsig is trash thanks to the gain in player skill, but the point being that it worked when it was up with the meta. Our ele's used to carry Healing Breeze, etc. All of this is in addition to what I've already mentioned above. Interupts are a strong but less mimickable part of the equation, as is the ranger armor, but do you see where I am comming from?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this post.

Rangers do have better survivabilty, but they are in no way as invincible as you describe.

Such a rant would lead me to think you have no real idea about rangers in general, or have even played one, thus making your opinion on them being overpowered, or "having godmode" as you eloquently put it, void.

Chthon · Nov 09, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale Nightsorrow

Maybe the Splinter Weapon Nerf was meant for solo Rts (Rt/W) in UW, only 1 group of 3 at a time now

With the introduction of PvE-only skills like TNtF, SV , and Ursan, I think it's pretty clear a-net has given up on "balancing" PvE. That makes this nerf all the more puzzling, sinc eit makes little sence from a PvP perspective either.

If it is about people using it on NPC's during VoD in guild battles, then
(1) So what? If someone wants to bring a skill that's useless for the entire match just to clean up if they reach VoD, let them I say. If you still think it's a problem, punish their skill choice by not starting VoD so soon.
(2) The "correct" solution to this problem is to fix the NPC AI, not to nerf 1 skill. There's all sorts of other AoE that will wipe out the NPC's just as well.

Quote:

Not sure though...maybe it's still effective, and whats with Ancestral Rage? I don't get why they made it an enchant and then removed it as an enchant. why? O.o

I suspect it had something to do with dervishes.

englitdaudelin · Nov 09, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Yay to change to Ancestor's rage--If it's no longer an enchantment...will we still see the 1 second delay?
Boooooo to change to Splinter weapon--a little Splinter nerf? Now only 3 adjacent foes are affected? It sounds like it could affect the use of splinter barrage, splinter / cyclone axe, splinter/100 blades, and the like.
*sniff. Now I have to be careful with aggro.

Nice monk buffs.

smrandom · Nov 09, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

If it is about people using it on NPC's during VoD in guild battles, then
(1) So what? If someone wants to bring a skill that's useless for the entire match just to clean up if they reach VoD, let them I say. If you still think it's a problem, punish their skill choice by not starting VoD so soon.
(2) The "correct" solution to this problem is to fix the NPC AI, not to nerf 1 skill. There's all sorts of other AoE that will wipe out the NPC's just as well.

Splinter is not useless during a match. Among other things, it blows up mid and backliners who enjoy camping in wards under layers of passive defense. You could also buff Walking Trees and do more damage in 10 seconds than a pile of falling rocks could ever hope to do. Splinter Weapon was quickly on its way to being on the same level as LoD--you simply had to bring it because it was that good.

I would assume that fixing AI is easier said that done. In any event, some GvG maps make that kind of suggestion just impossible.

Quote:

I suspect it had something to do with dervishes.

Your suspicions are wrong. It had to do with a stupid telespike build being used in all PvP areas. It was an exploit of an otherwise fine skill (damage numbers were a little eyepopping, though). There was a collateral effect that involved Dervishes, but that wasn't the reason for the change.

street peddler · Nov 09, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

pretty sure splinter weapon nerf was for gvg matches, it was way too good at VoD.

A_Muppet · Nov 09, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

People complaining about Weaken Armor's usefulness clearly never used it before this buff.

I wasn't complaining, just going 'meh'. I never really used it before, because it just struck me that Barbs was a more useful spell. I did bring it sometimes, but the reason I'm all 'meh' over it now is because the only thing I really saw it handy for was plonking on the casters, making them even more liable to die from a fireball or whatever. For a warrior, Insid. Parasite and/or Enfeeble takes care of them. Now it's only really good for use against the tougher classes, because few people bring skills that rely on Cracked Armour as a requirement (such as Body Blow)

stretchs · Nov 09, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Splinter weapon was indeed becoming a very popular skill in GvG, be it by dual trees slashing into the unremovable wards or standing close to the almost uncounterable paragon shouting. It makes a team spread out more and possible isolate a member more than one would want to. Or as many have said during vod splinter would obliterate npc's like there were presear n00bs.

As for LoD, as much as I hate to see the healing from it go away I did think it deserved some hate. It was the only elite run no the heal bar and always was run. Anytime one elite is the only one brought for a particular build you have to look at it somehow being imba. The 2 sec cast may be a bit much, but a nerf is/was definitely needed. There needs to be shakeup in current "meta" anyway.

Blockway is retarded, as many of the people are here whining that damage is too great. QQ. This isnt stand around and let people fling their weapons, this is Guildwars. Note the WAR part of that, people die, that is part and parcel, many of the changes are to remove the friggin horribly boring matches that you watch on "tv' No kills to vod, someone might have ganked a couple npc and hope your vodway build beats the other. MEH, just silly to see all the QQ about 1 skill ruining the game blah blah.

Magebane is actually not as bad as many people are QQ about either being unblockable. With the current blockway getting int's have also become increasingly difficult. Be it guardian, sod (fair the well during last nerf) Aegis, DA etc. So more offense = faster matches, more tactics instead of get in trouble, spam LoD, rinse repeat. You will probably see more hex pressure builds with the loss of LoD or at least a HP runner to help balance it out as LoD was great at counteracting partywide degen.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 09, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

Rangers do have better survivabilty, but they are in no way as invincible as you describe.

You know as well as I do that rangers are one of the most highly survivable characters in this game. I've been playing ranger for some time now, thank you, and I certainly die the least as this class.

Martin Firestorm · Nov 09, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Healer's boon may be a nice elite for an alternate hero build to the usual WoH build now, even with the WoH buff. It wasn't an option before since the heroes are so lame at maintained enchantments, but HB plus heal party with some typical heal skills like dwayna's kiss and words of comfort could be a good hero bar.

Nyree · Nov 09, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

After some tests with splinter + barrage, i don't have too much to complain anymore. It still works wonders with barrage as 4 arrows triggers the splinter wich means you can hit, at least, 12 foes at once. It's only bad if the group is very large. Splinter Barrage margonite farm might be is dead now but the skill combo still works fine.

Chthon · Nov 09, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by smrandom

Splinter is not useless during a match. Among other things, it blows up mid and backliners who enjoy camping in wards under layers of passive defense.

ward = in the area
splinter = adjacent

If those mid/back-liners camping in the wards are getting themselves hit with splinter, then they deserve to die more than the skill does.

Quote:

I would assume that fixing AI is easier said that done.

It is. But that doesn't mean a-net should take the easy way out because the right way is more difficult.

Quote:

Your suspicions are wrong. It had to do with a stupid telespike build being used in all PvP areas. It was an exploit of an otherwise fine skill (damage numbers were a little eyepopping, though). There was a collateral effect that involved Dervishes, but that wasn't the reason for the change.

You aren't talking about that DwG gimmick, are you? It's not that powerful.

Grammar · Nov 09, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

considering its pretty much demanded on the bar of pug monks and the AoE, mass condition, traps effects going on in pve....lets be friends and say everyone got shafted.

You hit the 2 key points right (in bold):

1. The reason LoD is demanded on monk bars is because the state of the game right now in both PvP and high end PvE absolutely DEMANDS it. Period. The game has progressed much too far in the last year or so for year-old, pre-Nightfall monk builds to still function given the current state of the game. From increased melee pressure, to carzy AoE spells, to crazy dungeon traps, the game simply demands LoD.

2. Everybody loses here, not just monks. That's what makes this nerf so much bigger than every other nerf out there (since the game was released IMO), it hurts everybody. I'm sick of all the "it's about time monks and their precious LoD were nerfed!" comments I've seen. Try thinking a little harder about it...
Do you play Warrior?
Do you play Ranger?
Do you play Mesmer?
Do you play Necro?
Do you play Elementalist?
Do you play Monk?
Do you play Assassin?
Do you play Ritualist?
Do you play Dervish?
Do you play Paragon?
If you answered yes to any of the previous questions, you've just been nerfed. LoD/prot hybrid monks are what's been keeping your asses alive all this time amidst ever increasing crazy-ass damage. They're loss is your loss too.

The game is in a state of chaos right now. I've spent (wasted?) my entire day off tinkering with builds in PvE and PvP. WoH still sucks and is not the answer, HB + HP still sucks and is not the answer, ZB/GoH still isn't the answer, full prot isn't the answer, there simply is no answer. Nothing works nearly as good as needed, no, demanded by the current state of the game.

The only solution that I see is to start changing the state of the game so we can survive without LoD. Obviously, a whole crap-ton of nerfs and changes are needed on ANet's part, but there are still some things that we can do to change the way we play.
For example, I like the post in this thread where someone mentioned bringing back self-heals and damage mitigation. I added Restful Breeze to my Ele and Ranger's bars (best squishy self-heal in the game

), put wards on my SF heros, and added Watch Yourself back to my DS Warrior's bar (oh how I missed that skill

).
Rest assured though, the days of "just let the monks worry about it" are over.

Painbringer · Nov 09, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Why was Healing breeze increased? 18 seconds with 20 % mod is awesome but why bump?

Spazzer · Nov 09, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

Now it's only really good for use against the tougher classes, because few people bring skills that rely on Cracked Armour as a requirement (such as Body Blow)

Weaken Armor was never a skill you could use with much effect in PvP. 3s casting time really hurt the skill, and so did the 20s recharge.

Now that it throws a condition, it's easy to spread. In PvE, most enemies--including the casters--have more than 60 armor. Most enemies can't remove conditions. Remember that Body Blow is a more powerful non-elite version of Eviscerate that can be used with any melee weapon and is cheaper. There are also many other skills that take advantage of Cracked Armor.

Weaken Armor is at least more effective now in PvE, partly thanks to the fact that its Cracked Armor lasts forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

Why was Healing breeze increased? 18 seconds with 20 % mod is awesome but why bump?

I can only think it was done to encourage Monk secondaries. The Heal Party buff has that feel to it, too.

HawkofStorms · Nov 09, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

You hit the 2 key points right (in bold):

1. The reason LoD is demanded on monk bars is because the state of the game right now in both PvP and high end PvE absolutely DEMANDS it. Period. The game has progressed much too far in the last year or so for year-old, pre-Nightfall monk builds to still function given the current state of the game. From increased melee pressure, to carzy AoE spells, to crazy dungeon traps, the game simply demands LoD.

Wrong. People have just gotten lazy and LoD has become a crutch. Its never "impossible" to do something in this game. That statement alone kills your credability. Another flavor of the month will be developed by a player for you to copy soon enough, don't worry.

ProgTes · Nov 09, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Seen some pretty good posts and arguments here, but the main point still remains that they gave an insane buff to all the Wammo's out there. Meta will be Healing Breeze/Mending Bonders, Warriors with insane self heal and Ele's with conjure element, a wand, and frenzy. Mark my words.

BenjZee · Nov 09, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I have played and i have to say i am liking the new changes to monk skills. I didnt mind them before though
as much as WoH being allowed to heal yourself being good...wasnt the whole balance behind it not to heal yourself? LOD i have never really used so i cant state my opinion...yes you heard me a monk that never uses it

Hey Andrew...how you doing?

Blackhearted · Nov 09, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Wrong. People have just gotten lazy and LoD has become a crutch. Its never "impossible" to do something in this game. That statement alone kills your credability. Another flavor of the month will be developed by a player for you to copy soon enough, don't worry.

Well then tell me, since you seem to be so full of yourself and your *supposed* vast knowledge. What will be this viable alternative to LoD? To be honest with ya.. you'd be extremely hard pressed to find ANY viable replacement for it that doesn't suck.